Pastor C. T. Russell Argues in Favor of this Proposition, while the Rev. Dr. E. L. Eaton Opposes It


Every seat was occupied and the overflow packed all the aisles and the open space at the entrance of the Allegheny Carnegie hall last evening when the discussion of the fourth proposition in the joint debate between the Rev. Dr. E. L. Eaton, pastor of the North Avenue Methodist Episcopal church, and Pastor C. T. Russell of the Bible House congregation opened.

The subject last evening was, "The Scriptures clearly teach that only the 'saints' of this gospel age will share in the 'first resurrection; 'but that vast multitudes will be saved in and by the subsequent resurrection."

Pastor Russell had the affirmative in this discussion and, under the rules, opened with an address lasting 50 minutes. Dr. Eaton followed with an address of similar length, and then each was given 10 minutes for a reply to the arguments the other brought forward.

The Rev. John A. Jayne, pastor of the Observatory Hill Christian church, was chairman of last evening's meeting. Devotional exercises lasting 15 minutes preceded the opening at 8 o'clock.

The large audience was very attentive throughout the evening. The interest in the debate seems to grow with the discussion. The next discussion will take place tomorrow evening at 8 o'clock and the last one on Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock.


The congregational singing has been a feature of the debates which appears to have been much enjoyed. Prof. B. Frank Walters of the Bible House congregation is the organist and E. P. Russell is the preceptor. [HG135] Pastor Russell, in affirming the proposition for the evening's debate, said: I feel, dear friends, that the topic of the resurrection of the dead is one of the most important doctrines in the word of God, a doctrine which, it seems to me, has not been granted its due place of importance in recent years, a doctrine, however, which we find is very prominent indeed in the word of God. From our standpoint, as heretofore presented, we understand the Scriptures to teach that the dead are really dead: that they are not alive in any sense of the word, except in the sense that our heavenly Father predetermined a resurrection of the dead, predetermined that He should accomplish this matter through a redemption which would pay the ransom price for our Father Adam's sin, and thus secure to all his posterity who failed in him and who came under death conditions, an opportunity for return to life; as the apostle says: "By one man sin entered into the world, and death as the result of sin, and thus death passed upon all men."

In God's due time He sent forth His Son, that He might redeem us, that He might purchase us with His own precious blood. The penalty upon the race was death, extinction; but, in view of this intention on the part of our heavenly Father, death was always spoken of in the past, preceding our Lord's coming, as a sleep. The Lord expresses it thus to His people, and intimates in this way His sure intention of bringing back all mankind from the tomb, and all those who believed God expressed their confidence in the Almighty, in His promises, and in His power, when they spoke of one another as falling asleep. We read you various texts of Scripture on a previous occassion, showing that this word "sleep" is generally applied throughout the Scriptures, not only to the good, but also to the forward, that they all are said to have fallen asleep: "They slept with their father."


We would like to have you notice that the Scriptures teach that the penalty for sin is death of the soul! "The soul that sinneth it shall die." And so it was because the soul was under condemnation that our Lord is said to have "poured out His soul unto death." We do not mean by soul any abstruse or obscure thing; we mean sentient being, that which the Scriptures everywhere represent the soul to be. The Scriptures represent that all souls are under sin, under the sentence of death. You are a soul; I am a soul; every other member of Adam's posterity is a soul, and each one shares in Father Adam's sin and each soul of us is under condemnation of death. Who can redeem his soul from the power of the grave? Who can give to God a ransom for his brother, or even himself? No one. So we are all helpless, except as the heavenly Father provides the great Redeemer, and the Redeemer gave the full price.

As it was your life and my life that was forfeited, your soul and my soul that was condemned, so our Lord Jesus poured out His soul unto death. "He made His soul an offering for sin." It was not merely our Lord's body, you see, but the Lord's soul; and so Peter, in speaking of our Lord's resurrection, does not speak merely of the resurrection of the body but, quoting the prophet David, declares "His soul was not left in hades, neither did God suffer His Holy One to see corruption."

We would like to have you notice that the resurrection we preach, which the Scriptures teach, is the resurrection of the soul, the being, the coming again of those beings that now go down into death. To preach the resurrection of the body would imply, we think, an absurdity. If the Scriptures taught it we would be ready to accept even an absurdity, but the Scriptures do not teach that the same body which goes down is to be resurrected. Your body, my body, will return to the dust as it was; it will have no preference, and the atoms which compose your and my bodies are not necessary to our heavenly Father in restoring our souls, in bringing us to being again. There are plenty of atoms of matter, if he wished to create us again of the earth earthy, without using the ones which composed the body at death.


Let me call your attention to the fact that our Lord Jesus was the first one to rise from the dead' the first one to experience resurrection. I know that we sometimes hear people speak of those whom Elijah and Elisha brought back to life again, and refer to these as resurrections, but not so the Scriptures. We sometimes speak of the resurrection of Lazarus, or the son of the widow of Nain, or Jairus' daughter, but the Scriptures never do. They were merely awakenings. The word "resurrection" has in it something more than that. The Greek word rendered "resurrection" in the English is "anastasis," and anastasis signifies to bring up again. Lazarus was not brought up again; he was brought up to a measure of life, but the measure of life he had when he died was only a mere drop of life, as it were.

You remember how the Lord spoke of the condition in which all mankind is, when he said, "Let the dead bury their dead." All are under condemnation, under the divine sentence, and their condition of existence is not full life.

When the Lord called Lazarus forth from the tomb He did not call him down from heaven, because he was not in heaven; and He did not call him up from some [HG136] place of Paradise; because he did not go to Paradise. Lazarus was dead; or to use the illustration so common with the Lord and others, "Lazarus sleepeth; I go that I may awake him out of sleep"' a sleep that otherwise would have lasted until the dawn of the millennial day when the general resurrection would be due, but a sleep that was interrupted temporarily, and Lazarus came back to a measure of life such as he had previously. But he was still dead, except as he could be counted alive by faith in Jesus Christ.

Let me quote some of the Scriptures which prove that our Lord Jesus was the first to rise from the dead. If I establish this point, that our Lord was the first to rise from the dead, it proves what I contend for, that these others were not resurrections, but merely temporary awakenings. Acts 26:23, "That Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first which should rise from the dead." 1 Cor. 15:22, 23, "For as all in Adam die, even so all in Christ shall be made alive; every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." Col 1:10: "He is the head of the body, the church, which is the beginning, the first born from the dead' that in all things He might have the preeminence." Heb. 6:19, 20: "Which hope we have as an anchor to the soul, both sure and steadfast; which entereth into that within the vail, whither the forerunner is forever entered"' He is the forerunner, the first One to arrive, and we follow Him, but do not precede Him. Rev. 1:5: "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first-begotten from the dead."


These Scriptures clearly establish the fact that our Lord was the first to rise from the dead; consequently these others were merely temporary awakenings.

Coming back to Lazarus, we remind you of the words of the Lord in His comfort to Martha and Mary, and I am sure His words have comforted many others since in sorrow. Jesus said not, Thy brother is in paradise, nor in hades; what did He say? "Thy brother shall rise again;" He points them to the real hope. Mary and Martha were well instructed in the matter, and they said, "We know that he shall rise again in the last day." They had faith in the resurrection. Jesus assured them that He was the resurrection, that is to say, that resurrection power was in Him; He was the one Through whom the dead should have their life, and that they might have something in the present time. He proceeded to the awakening of Lazarus as an illustration of His power, to be exercised in full at His second advent. If Lazarus was at this time in paradise or heaven, or any good, desirable place, do you think the Lord would have brought him back again, and represent that He was conferring a favor upon Lazarus and the sisters? I tell you nay!

I remind you of the teaching of the apostles, that wherever they went their preaching was, as it is recorded in the Acts; "they went preaching Jesus and the resurrection." That was the hope – Jesus and His sacrifice, as the basis of all the hope for the future life. Without Jesus and the ransom sacrifice there could be no hope of a resurrection. The dead were all under the legal sentence; the Great Judge had sentenced Father Adam and all his posterity to death. They could not have life, could not be restored to life, until first of all a ransom had been paid, and therefore Jesus, as the great Redeemer, who gave Himself as the ransom for all, who died that we might live, came upon the scene. He suffered and died, and following this was His resurrection. The resurrection to mankind, as a result of this glorious work, will be the fulfillment of this great plan of God; the fulfillment will be the salvation.


There is no salvation, as we pointed out on a previous occasion, in the present time, except by faith, and so the apostle says to you and me who believe, and in proportion as we believe, "We are saved by hope." You have a good hope toward God; you believe that Christ died for our sins; therefore hoping in Him as the Redeemer, you hope that there is future probation in God's plan; you expect to have a share in the resurrection which God has provided through Jesus. You have only the hope now. You are waiting for the resurrection, waiting for the time when "the salvation shall be brought unto you at the revelation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," as the apostle expresses it.

Mark the words of the apostle when he was on trial before some of his enemies; he said: "For the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am called in question"' it is because I believe in the resurrection of the dead that I am here a prisoner. Not very many get into trouble now because they believe in the resurrection, because the doctrine has been crowded out by unscriptural ones to the effect that when a man dies he has got more alive than he ever was before. We see the great importance of the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead when we see the fact that a man who dies is really dead. Again he says: "We have a hope toward God that there shall be a resurrection, both of the just and the unjust." (Acts 24:15) A hope toward God! We see where there is a hope for the just, that they shall get a blessing through the resurrection; but where will there be one for the unjust? We will see when we come to it that the resurrection of the unjust is the great blessing that God has in store for mankind in general [HG137] in the millennium.

We call your attention also to the Scriptures which speak of the dead as being prisoners in the great prison house, the tomb, waiting for Emmanuel, to take to Himself His great power and open the prison doors, as He himself applied the prophecy of Isa. 61 to Himself, "The spirit of the Lord God hath anointed me . . . to open the prison doors and set at liberty the prisoners, and them that are bound." In the great millennial age He will say to the prisoners of death, Show yourselves. (Isa. 42:6-10) This is a pictorial way of stating the resurrection of the dead.


Now we come to the one chapter in all the Bible which more than any other sets forth this doctrine of the resurrection, the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. Begin at the (12th verse). "Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some amongst you that there is no resurrection of the dead." I know of a good many who have been led so far astray that even in our day they deny the resurrection, because they could see no reason nor use in it. Their argument is that resurrection would mean a return to mortal bodies, and they say, will we not be glad to shuffle off this mortal coil, and shall we be glad to get it back again? But we answer that they are wrong in supposing that death had brought life more abundant to them; the resurrection is what will bring life, the life giver is the Redeemer, who at His second advent will give life, as at the first advent He purchased the right to do so with His own precious blood.

"If Christ be not raised ye are yet in your sins." How much stress our Lord lays on this matter of the Lord's resurrection! If our Lord had died and had not been raised from the dead, we have no Savior. When He arose from the dead, that is the assurance that He is now able to deliver those that trust in Him and who wait for his time of deliverance.

"Then they which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." Perished! If they are gone to Paradise, or gone to heaven, could there be any question about perishing?

They are in the tomb, and if Christ has not been raised, if He has not redeemed us and if He is not risen from the tomb, how could He ever accomplish the great deliverance which is to be carried out in due time, according to the Scriptures? So the apostle says, if Christ is not raised we are still in our sins; He has made no atonement acceptable to God, and additionally all who fell asleep trusting in Jesus are perished.

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept." You never have a first-fruits unless you expect after fruits, and just so surely as he declares that Christ is a first-fruits so surely there is to be the after fruitage, and that means the after resurrection. "By a man came death, and by a man came the resurrection of the dead." Adam brought the death penalty by his disobedience under the divine law. The Lord brought the blessed opportunity of resurrection by His obedience, by giving His life as a ransom of Father Adam, and thus purchasing the whole race of Adam who were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.


The apostle then discusses the matter of the body, and says, "Some men will say, How. are the dead raised? With what body do they come. He is not speaking of how are bodies raised up, but "How are the dead raised up." He is speaking of the soul, the being, not speaking of the body; what kind of bodies will they have when they are resurrected, His answer is, "O foolish person, that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die." He is now applying this to nature; if you plant corn you do not expect to see the same grain of corn come up; but you will expect to find other grains of the same kind. In death you bury the human being; but you are not to expect the same body which you put down. The same body which goes into the grave will not come up, but the being, the entity, will be the same' God has preserved it in his own power, and He will clothe it with a body in due time.

The apostle proceeds to note what God's good pleasure is concerning the various features of the resurrection. "All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of fish, another flesh, of beasts, and another of birds. There are bodies celestial and bodies terrestrial, but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." Here he suggests that in God's plan there are two classes of beings, which our dear brother mentioned the other evening as dichotomy and trichotomy. The dichotomy are those who have merely the animal nature, the trichotomy are those who have been begotten of the spirit "from above," and who therefore have the start of the new nature, and who, according to the apostle, are classed as new creatures in Christ. These new creatures are spiritual, and spiritual promises apply to them and belong to them. But God has a special blessing also for the dichotomy; not a blessing with the church, for only those begotten of the spirit shall attain spiritual blessings; they will not share in the first resurrection, because in the latter only the kings and priests of this gospel age shall have any share (Rev. 20), but there is a glory of terrestrial, earthly nature, which is to be attained by the natural man in the later [HG138] resurrection. The apostle here wishes to show that two kinds of seed are sown, and two kinds of fruitage shall result' God will give to each kind of seed his own kind of body; to the natural man will be the natural body, similar to the one he has now; and to the new creature will be the spiritual body, the heavenly body, like unto Christ the glorious head.


In 1 Cor. 15:42, after the apostle describes the characteristics of the first resurrection, the resurrection of the church, says: "Thus is THE resurrection of THE dead."

These emphatic words are shown by the original Greek, although they are not apparent in the English translation. This is a special resurrection for a special class, the chief among the dead' they are the church, the body of Christ, faithful in Christ Jesus, who are promised a share with the Lord in the first resurrection.

The word first means properly first in order, but also implies a chief condition, a more important resurrection, implying a later resurrection of a less important character' the kind which shall come to the world in general. God's proposition, as described in this chapter (1 Cor. 15) is a spiritual body for the church, which will be different from the natural animal body, which is of the earth earthly; the church is to be changed from present earthly conditions and given bodies like unto our Lord's glorious body; or as the Apostle Peter has declared, "God hath given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these we might be made partakers of the divine nature' far above angels, principalities and powers, and every name that is named, like unto our Lord and Master in His glory, and shares with Him in His glory.

"The first man (Adam) was made a living soul (an animal soul), the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit." Christ was the last Adam and the church is to be like Him, with spiritual bodies. Then the apostle proceeds: "As was the earthly (Adam) so also are they that are earthly." As Father Adam was in His perfection, before condemnation, so will they also be of the earthly class who will share in the resurrection for the world of mankind in general. This will mean that the world will come back by resurrection processes to all that Father Adam had as the great earthly being whom God originally created. The apostle is not speaking of the heavenly resurrection; he has already spoken of that and says that all who have a share in it shall have spiritual bodies.

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." There was a disposition on the part of many to suppose that human beings could enter and become partakers of the glorious privileges of the spiritual kingdom, but the apostle is pointing out by inspiration that the heavenly kingdom is a spiritual one, and that those who become joint heirs with the Lord must be changed, and be spiritual, instead of being earthly, animal beings' they must partake of the divine nature in place of the human nature.


Then, "when this corruption shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality," shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory." Was death a good thing? No! Whose victory is this? The victory of our Lord, the victory of our Heavenly Father through our Lord Jesus Christ. When will death be swallowed up? After he shall have accomplished his mission. And how long will it take to swallow up death? It will take the whole millennial age. Death will have its power until the very close of that time, for the statement is, "He must reign until he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

In Rev. 20:5 we have the statement: "The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years are finished." The prophet John, the writer, has just recounted the matter o' the first resurrection; that they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But who will they be reigning over? A dead world!

Not a world in non-existence during the thousand years, but a world which will not have attained to life, in its proper sense, until the thousand years are finished.

From God's standpoint this word "live" has a particular significance. Adam was alive before the sentence of death came, and from the moment he became a transgressor and under sentence he became a dying man instead of a living man.

That represents the condition of all the world. All have a measure of life, as they exist today, but all are in a dying, not a living, condition. They are not in the tomb, but God does not recognize them as alive. During the millennial age conditions will be reversed, and instead of the race going down more and more into degradation and sin and death and corruption, the order will be changed, and they will be rising, and rising, and rising, out of death, out of death' but they won't get out of death totally, fully, until the close of the age. They will not live, in the sense that God speaks of it, until the thousand years are finished. Then, having come to the condition of perfection, having received all that was lost, they will live again in the same sense that Father Adam lived before he transgressed. [HG139]


Our Lord referred to the same thought in John 5:25, "The hour is coming when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live."

Some of us have already heard the voice of the Son, while we were children of wrath, and from a reckoned standpoint we have begun to live, through faith in Christ. "He that believed on the Son hath life," he has a life reckoned to him, and so enjoying it by faith that it will be an everlasting life, and that the tomb will not interfere with his life. But speaking of the world of mankind in general during the millennial age, when the dead are awakened (John 5:28-29) as Lazarus was awakened, there will be an opportunity for all who have never heard the voice of the Son of Man to hear it then, and those who hear in the proper sense of obeying will continue to progress to the attainment of life, in its full sense.

"God wills that all men shall be saved, (to be preserved, that they should not be totally cut off from opportunity while in the tomb, preserved from extinction), and to come to the knowledge of the truth. The great majority are in ignorance, but God wills that all shall know, because, the apostle goes on to say, "There is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified (to all) in due time." When you heard the testimony your responsibility began. When the heathen shall hear their responsibility will begin. Those who will hear during the millennial age, in the sense of obeying that great prophet, teacher, Christ the Head, and the church His body, will be brought up gradually by restitution processes, until at the close of the millennial age they shall live, and those who refuse to hear the prophet' mark the words of Peter (Acts 3:23), "shall be utterly destroyed amongst the people."

Daniel gives us a picture in the 12th chapter, of the millennial conditions: "Some shall arise to life; and some to shame and everlasting contempt." The word everlasting her is from the Hebrew word "olam," which is not as strong as our English word, but is equivalent to the word "lasting." They will come forth to lasting contempt. How long will it last? As long as the contemptible conditions last. I fancy Nero, for instance, coming forth. Under the new conditions as he will see around him the evidence of righteousness he will experience shame and contempt; he will not only have contempt for himself, but the contempt of all those about him. They will recognize Nero of ancient days. But under the blessed conditions of that time, if he will hear the Son's voice, he will be assisted to righteous conditions' hewill be given the blessings of restitution processes, an opportunity to raising up to life, to an appreciation of what is right and wrong, and if he chooses the right, chooses to be on God's side, he may make progress up out of his degraded condition to the full human perfection provided in the glorious resurrection for the obedient of the world. (Great applause)


Dr. Eaton, in rising to address the audience, in support of the negative of the proposition, said: Our brother started out by undertaking to show that there were no resurrections until Christ. All that is needed to reply to that is to quote the statement concerning Lazarus, "whom he raised from the dead." (John 12:1) He said, "Do you suppose God brought Lazarus back from paradise?" Well, Paul went to paradise and he came back and told us of it. "I knew a man who was carried to paradise and saw things which were not lawful to be uttered." What did he come back for? He went to paradise and to heaven, and came back. That is no argument. How do I know what the Lord would do? I do know the Lord did not permit Paul to tell anything about what he saw. And if you run through the Scriptures you will find quite a number of people who have been permitted to go through the experience we call death, and come back again. One was Lazarus, and there were several others' Samuel, for instance, who came back at the call of God, as I believe. But not one of them have ever been permitted to describe what they saw, nor to describe the heavenly state. They have only been permitted to characterize it, as Paul said, "Eye hath not seen nor ear heard, neither hath it entered the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." If Paul was not in a condition to know whether he was there in the body or out of it, he certainly was not in a fit condition to describe what he saw. The fact that Lazarus said nothing, proves nothing. He was dead, and Christ raised him from the dead, as it is plainly said.

Our brother has taught that the disciples went everywhere preaching about the resurrection; the resurrection, the resurrection, was their great theme. I say, no; the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the great theme! (Applause) They preached it on Pentecost, to 3,000 people who surrendered and accepted the truth. The next day Peter went up to the temple and healed a man, and began to preach to the multitude which gathered, and again he preached the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. On the third day they put him in prison, and when he came out and was permitted to address the Sanhedrin he preached the resurrection of Christ there. [HG140]


Wherever Paul went he said nothing about the resurrection of ourselves, so far as I can remember, but every place he preached the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is what the resurrection is. The Scriptures do not put any special stress or importance on the resurrection of our body. We have only one chapter in the Bible, the 15th of First Corinthians, that has anything about it particularly, but more than 200 places speaking of the resurrection of Christ. At Athens, before the cultured intellectual Greeks, Paul preached the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

If my brother will now turn to the first chapter of First Peter and quote us once more on this subject: "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." He taught you tonight that we are begotten by the resurrection from the dead! "To an inheritance, incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you who are kept by the power of God, through faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time." What is ready to be revealed?


Let us see what the last time is, then. "Redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, who verily was foreordained from the foundation of the world, but was manifested in these last times."

Salvation was revealed in the last time, and we are now in this last time' the last we shall ever see. Christ's salvation is proclaimed now. "Little children," says John, "it is the last time," meaning by that it is the last dispensation of this world's history. This is the time in which salvation is to be proclaimed. "Begotten again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance reserved in heaven for you who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." That was in the millennial age!

Wait until the next age comes! No, that is not in any millennial age. It is now, in the last time: "And it will come to pass in the last time that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh." That is what Peter quoted from Joel at Pentecost, and which he said was fulfilled then. "God who at sundry times and in divers manner spake by the prophets hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son." Not in the last days of any special dispensation, but in the last dispensation that this world will ever see. There is none other coming. Better get ready for the jubilee now!

(Laugther and applause) It is sheer nonsense to talk about a millennial age in which a person is going to be a thousand years getting saved, sliding along, raising a little higher and higher, evoluting, evolving, and by and by getting saved! (Applause) If the great God in heaven cannot save a man in the twinkling of an eye He is not Almighty!


My brother says there is no salvation in the present time. No one is saved now.

That is very strange doctrine. We do not know how a man can say that in the face of all the declarations' that one only has a mortgage on his salvation (laugther) and gets the proof of it in the millennial age! The devil has got a mortgage on some fellows (laugther) but the Lord does not have to save people by a mortgage.

He can save them now! "Ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart." What does that mean? That you cannot find God now?

He would tell you that was written by Jeremiah to the people in captivity, and doesn't mean us! Or he would tell us that the prayer of David is only prophecy, to be fulfilled in some future time, or that the books of the Pentateuch apply only to the Jews, and the book of Romans was written to the Romans, and none but the Romans can get anything out of it' although I notice that our brother gets a good deal out of it when he wants to! (Applause, in which Pastor Russell joined) It is all very well to make a selection of texts just when they suit your argument!

If that is the case, we get no revelation from the Word of God, and might as well close it up. You cannot cheat me out of the Fifty-first Psalm or the Thirty-second Psalm, where the prophet praises God that his sins are forgiven, and that his soul is saved. You cannot cheat me out of the provisions of God's grace, by saying it was written at such a time and to such a people. The great truths are applicable to all people. "Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest," said Jesus. That was spoken to the Jews, one of the most comforting promises ever made to men, and one we hold now, under which we can have this great salvation. His spirit witnesseth with our spirit that we are children of God.

Not children by and by, because we are not waiting for any millennial age to find out whether we are going to be His children.

I was rather in hope that this millennial business was not going to complicate matters tonight, but it is still cropping out, and we can't get rid of it. (General applause) He says if Christ be not raised, then all are perished. I wonder what was the deeper meaning of Paul in that statement, "If Christ be not raised, then all are perished." That there is no atonement; if no atonement you can go back logically to the fact that there is no Christ; [HG141] that there was no sacrifice for sins; that there was no arrangement for salvation, and that there was no God.


The resurrection of our Lord Jesus settled and fixed as a fact that Jesus Christ was God's Son. Paul says, "If thou wilt confess with thy mouth and believe with thy heart, thou shalt be saved." What was he to confess? If Christ was dead, not resurrected, then there was no sacrifice, no redemption, nothing to believe; but the man who believes that Christ was raised believes the whole system of the logical belief; on the principle that the greater includes the less, that the last great link binds the whole chain together, so if he believes that Christ was raised from the dead he believes the whole theological system. If Christ is not raised from the dead there is no Paradise, heaven, hades, Tartarus, life or immortality.

Paul does not belittle Christ; his is a tremendous argument. But this whole argument of our brother's belittles Christ, and when he puts him on a throne in a millennial age time of blessing, he makes Him a little Napoleon or Caesar.

(Laugther) He tells us about this gospel age, and that it is simply a select few, a small class, and quotes from that remarkable utterance of James in the 15th chapter of Acts, at the first council of the apostles at Jerusalem, as to what they would do with the new heathen converts.

All the others had spoken, and James winds up the argument: "Simon hath declared how first God visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." With that one sentence my brother interprets the whole Bible, as though the great thought was that we have no other business in this world, no other care, than to take out a preacher or a minister here and there to do the work of the millennial age. (Laugther) The whole thing turns on that!

If he had read on to the next verse he would have seen differently. James quotes from the prophet: "And to this agree the words of the prophet, After this I will return, and build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and will build again the ruins thereof and set it up, that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, that is, every other man upon the face of the earth (tumultuous applause broke the speaker's utterance, as the entire audience recognized that the point was in favor of the opponent), and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, may seek the Lord." (Great applause)


Now, I say, friends, I repudiate that teaching, and calling it the gospel is a misnomer; and saying that we are saved, a resurrection, which is not the resurrection of Christ, but our resurrection, is all wrong. The great atonement, the Son of God, the second person in the glorious Trinity, is entirely forgotten. The process is a mechanical one in his mind, it is a work accomplished by a great institutional movement, the millennium, and Christ is belittled, the Holy Ghost is belittled, pentecost is belittled. I know what I am talking about, for I have read the brother's writings, and he says nothing about pentecost in the way it ought to be presented. It is not set forth as a birth, the inauguration of the kingdom of God on earth, the outpouring of the spirit, salvation of three thousand the first day and two thousand the next, the birth of the church, the spreading of the truth from Jerusalem and through the whole earth.

The whole thing is belittled. He would belittle Christ's own words, "The spirit of the Lord is upon me," etc. He says that does not occur now; no broken hearts are being healed in this gospel age, no prisoners set free; they are not being liberated now and never have been, and are to wait till the millennial age. When Jesus quoted those words, and sat down, He said: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears!" (Applause)

Christ is saving the people by the hundred thousand! He has saved me, and I am able to put my hand upon my heart and look to the judgment throne of heaven and say, "Therefore being justified by faith, I have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." I shall never in any millennial age be able to say that more clearly than now. He is saving the lame by putting something into their souls that will make them walk free from temptation; He is saving the prisoners, by freeing them from sins and giving them the blessings of salvation. Those were His miracles, and He is fulfilling them still today. The great gospel of Jesus Christ is going to the end of the world. When I was a boy I used to hear the people praying, "Lord open the doors of the heathen world." Within 25 years the door of every heathen land has been opened to the human race. There is scarcely a nation that is not open.


And Bishop Thoburn has told us at our conference two weeks ago that he had baptized many persons in that little district in India; and when he asked a minister how many of the people there were who would be baptized if they had the opportunity, I think he said 15,000,000 were ready for baptizing if we could give it. The world wants to be saved, if we will stop talking salvation after death, and get the work of saving done. It will be saved if we will stop the wickedness of the dark ages, that our brother referred [HG142] to, and with which I heartily agree. It will be stopped if the churches will go to work, as they are now doing, awake to their duty. Our brother doesn't want to see them saved. He wouldn't give a penny to have the world saved, just because he has this theory that a few people are to be ministers and priests for the millennial age. If you pin your faith on the millennium you will never find any millennial age. And if I don't show you on Thursday night that the whole millennial business is sheer and absolute nonsense, then I am a fool! (General applause) A very important part of this discussion is, what are we going to do about Lazarus and the rich man? (Laugther) I have asked night after night for his explanation, and I haven't got it yet. He has refused thus far to give his interpretation, but I have it in print. Now, this is important. If there is probation after death, it is in the intermediate state, and the theory of the rich man and Lazarus settles it. If there is any soul sleeping after death, the story of the rich man and Lazarus ought to settle it. But there is no soul-sleeping after death, nor is there any probation after death. Jesus said that very plainly. Ourbrother feels the force of that; there is no question about it. He feels that the rich man and Lazarus is fatal to his whole doctrine, and if he cannot get some mythical interpretation, or some institutional interpretation, or ecclesiastical interpretation, then his theory is hit square in the face.

There is a plain story of two persons, a good and a bad man. My brother starts out by saying he sees no reason why this rich man should be damned. I am going to read just what he said: "While this is stated as a parable, it is generally treated as a literal statement." It reads as a literal statement in the Scriptures; but I am willing to treat it either way, to suit him. My brother states that this rich man went to hades because he was rich and had enjoyed many favors.


Why, there are three reasons given why he went to hades: First, because, having riches, he loved them, his heart was set upon them, as illustrated in the case of every rich man in the Scriptures, from Achan, who stole the wedge of gold, to Judas, who sold his master. Second, Lazarus, covered with sores, was not relieved by him. The third, that he rejected Moses and the prophets, which God had given to save his soul. Now, my brother, if you will interpret Scriptures that way and publish that, you are not a safe leader of men! (Laugther) He says we don't know that Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom. That he was a Jew was enough; there is no other reason to be given. "The coveted place in Abraham's bosom, if literal, would not take in many of the millions of the world." I admit that not very many hundred millions could get there, but can he dispose of Scripture that way?

The Lord referred to Abraham's bosom because it was a general phrase of speech.

Among the Jews it was well known as a way of referring to future bliss, as much so as the word heaven is among the people of this city. But why consider absurdities?

"In a parable the thing said is never the thing meant!" Think of that! Do you believe that, you are not a safe leader of men the Good Samaritan! (Laugther) If the Good Samaritan parable doesn't mean what it says it doesn't mean anything.

Try it on the four great parables of Luke, the Good Samaritan, the Rich Man and Lazarus, the Importunate Widow and the Prodigal Son. They all mean exactly what they say. But our brother says it does not mean what it says, and quotes the parable of the wheat and the tares, which doesn't mean what it says, I admit.

(Great applause)

Do you know what you are cheering for? (Voices, Yes, sir!) I merely meant that while in a parable it is not true that the thing said is never the thing meant, always, it is generally the thing said that is meant.

I deny that Luke ever intended this parable to be a figurative expression.

Matthew was always giving parables about the kingdom, and you can always attach an ethical meaning or an organizational meaning, or a figurative meaning to the things he wrote. He did not know very much about individuals or characters; his writing is all about the kingdom. Matthew was the great millennialist; he cherished the ideas of the Jews being restored to their dominion, and makes kingdom out of everything. But Luke wrote for the Greeks, who adored character and worshipped the idea of the individual, and Luke records Jesus Christ as the characteristic man. He disregards a great deal of his divinity.

Matthew writes of the centurion, "Surely this was the Son of God." Luke doesn't write it that way. He writes, "Surely this was a righteous man!"


This parable is simply wasted and evaporated by giving it the interpretation our brother does. He says the rich man was the Jewish nation, having God's promises, and given royal favors, and under the law of God, and Lazarus was the Gentiles, without favor, and in a sin, sick condition because of God's disregard.

Why didn't he say that the rich man is the great heathen world, with its power and armies and regal authority. If there is any parable that is the way to interpret it.

Then I should say that Lazarus, if there is any place on the green earth that he should represent, [HG143] would be Judaism, because Lazarus was a Jew, and for nearly 4,000 years they had been under the heel of the great powers of the world. You see, my interpretation is just like his, and just as foolish as his is. There is not an atom of sense in either of them. The fact is that that is a tremendous story when Christ our Lord represents the condition of hades, with its dark gulf, rolling its surges between Tartarus and Paradise, and a soul sent to Tartarus for evil use of wealth, and another godlike person found in Abraham's bosom. There is a great moral lesson for every sinner in Allegheny. The question of probation after death is settled by that parable. There is a tremendous difficulty before the person who can make texts slip and slide everywhere, as our brother does. If that is an honest interpretation of the Bible, then I do not know right from wrong. (Great applause) He talks a good deal about the thief in paradise, and tells us that paradise was in Eden' that there was no paradise for the thief to go to. Then where did Paul go?

I wonder that people follow that sort of interpretation. I do not know how this brother dares to stand before this audience and talk about another chance. I dare not take so tremendous a responsibility upon my hands. I have preached from the beginning of my ministry that Jesus Christ was a great Saviour, the Son of God, who died for the sins of the whole world, and I preach that He will save now, with a precious salvation. We are saved now with the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. There is no wisdom nor device nor knowledge in sheol, whither thou goest. These words are carefully selected by the Holy Ghost to indicate that there is no means of salvation in sheol. Do it now, for this is your last chance! (Applause)


Pastor Russell said in reply: I had hoped that we should have heard more from Brother Eaton respecting the resurrection. What I have to say about the last days and last time of this age shall be said on Thursday evening. Respecting the holy spirit, I do not think our brother has read what we have to say about this, for we have said a great deal concerning the spirit and its work. I shall be pleased to send him a copy of Vol. V of the "Millennial Dawn" series, in which this matter is treated.

We fully agree with our brother that there was a partial fulfillment of Isa. 61, at our Lord's first advent, but there is much yet to be fulfilled, for our Lord did not then open the prison doors and release the prisoners, according to the prophecy.

There are blessings coming to you and me now, in a spiritual way, but these are not all that is contemplated in this text. In Acts 3:19, the Apostle Peter tells us that at the Lord's second advent will be the time for the general blotting out of sins against the race of mankind, as the opportunity for salvation is given them fully. We have a measure of release now, and we thank God for it. The brother cannot extol the privilege too highly to suit me; but the great mass of the world is still the groaning creation. The Lord's consecrated in Pittsburgh and Allegheny are but a small proportion of the population in these cities. The mass of them in these two of the most favored of the cities in the world, are still groaning in darkness, ignorance and slavery to sin, "waiting," as the apostle declares, "for the manifestation of the sons of God."

In the glorious millennial age not merely will the holy spirit come upon the few, not merely upon the "servants and handmaidens" of Joel's prophecy, but upon "all flesh." The prophet makes a distinction, saying that the former class shall have the Holy Spirit "in those days," and "all flesh" shall have its privileges "after those days." (Applause) Our brother quoted from Peter, that we are begotten again, "unto a lively hope," but the proper translation would be "a hope of life, by the resurrection of the dead." We have a hope of life, a hope of resurrection now, and are waiting for its fulfillment when salvation shall be revealed in us at the end of the trial time of this gospel age. (Applause)


Our dear brother differs from some of the standards of Methodism in respect to the meaning of parables. He is forced, you see, to lay all the stress of his argument upon this parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which we shall take up Thursday night. Dr. Adam Clark was a fairly authoritative Methodist (laugther and applause) and Dr. Adam Clark says, "A parable shall never be used for the basis of a doctrine!" (Loud applause) If there is nothing better to offer than a parable, better keep quiet! (Applause) In our brother's emphatic remarks about the thief in Paradise, I notice that he adds to the word of God considerable things that are not in the record at all. I am not charging our dear brother with any intentional duplicity. I believe the dear brother to be honest, as I also am, but we need to have our minds wide open, to see what the Lord hath spoken. It is not for Brother Eaton or myself to speak by inspiration tonight; the record is in God's word.

Dr. Eaton closed by saying:

I had no speech prepared for tonight. I came knowing that our brother was going to affirm a marvelous change at the resurrection, and knowing that I had a decided opinion to the contrary, and that is all I do know about it. I don't think our brother [HG144] knows any more. I believe in the resurrection. "It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption." That it is something more than the body. I do not believe that the same body which goes into the tomb will rise, but I do believe that something connected with our personality will be the basis of resurrection, and that something is not, to my mind, the thing that is dead. Of course, there is great difficulty in going before an audience in talking about the abstruse and difficult things of the resurrection of the human body. I shall not please my brother with what I shall say, and he does not please me with what he says; and perhaps neither of us will please anybody else. Like a seed that is sown and roots, there comes forth another, not identical, not the articles, but an identity, and that identity does not die. There is something about death that is not death in the sense of annihilation. Death never meant annihilation, so far as I know.


The other night he said that Peter was glad that Jesus came out of hades. Was that why Peter was so enthusiastic? No. He was glad because Jesus was risen, the great miracle of the New Testament had taken place' not the greatest miracle in human history, by any means, but the great event of our Savior's career. If that is true, the rest is true. If false, the rest is false.

My brother said the other night, if a sinner did not have eternal life, how could he be eternally tormented? He could not be if eternal life meant immortality, but it is not immortality at all. Eternal life is the gift of God, but immortality is the life of the soul; not that the soul is said to be immortal but the soul will never perish because of anything in the soul itself. There is no time limit for the soul, no device that will work its overthrow. The soul will live always. That is all I know about immortality. God gave it to the race at the beginning, but eternal life is altogether another thing.

It is astounding that such men as Gladstone and Lyman Abbott and Joseph Edgar Beet have mixed up those two ideas, that eternal life and immortality mean the same thing. He does not differentiate between eternal life and immortality. Devils are immortal until something happens to kill them. (Applause from Pastor Russell) Don't miss the point now. There is nothing in themselves that will work to their killing. No being has power to destroy his own soul by any device that God has given. He made them to live' a living soul. They do not die, nor sleep in the grave. Some of the Sadducees believe that, and my brother is a Sadducee!

(Laugther) A man who does not believe in spirit or immortality, but that one has to wait in the grave until the resurrection! Jesus condemned that position, and referred to Moses at the burning bush, and the Lord's words, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." He is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Applause)